Transcript of unreleased Elliott Smith interview, September 16, 1996, at Gibsons, Tempe, AZ.
Interview by Shane Kennedy. This was the same location/room where the picture used on the cover of Either/Or was taken. Sebadoh was also on the bill that night.

S: So tell me about the last year of your life.
ES: Tell you about the last year of my life? Uh, well, I don't know.
S: I heard that Heatmiser got signed to Virgin?
ES: Yeah.
S: Is that still a happenin' thing?
ES: Now the record that we made is coming out on Caroline.
S: When did you make that?
ES: Back in November.
S: Did you record it at (?) Whiteroom?
ES: No, we recorded it at a house that we rented.
S: Did Tony (Lash) do most of the work on it?
ES: No, these guys from Bongload, you know the label Bongload?
S: They might have seen it, i don't have anything on it
ES: They put out that Beck single "Loser" before he went to DGC and all that.
S: That production?
ES: Yeah.
S: So this (referring to Either/Or) is going to sound a lot fuller than the last things?
ES Well.
S: I finally got Dead Air. Wow, you're right....a rock album!
ES: Oh yeah, that's not a very good record.
ES: Yeah, so they came up and helped us, it was kind of all of us doing the production work, though.
S: How many of your songs ended up on it?
ES: I think about half of it.
S: Were any of those songs songs that were on any of your other releases?
ES: No, they were...almost all of them were going to be songs that were going to be on my next solo record.
S: Are any of them mellow?
ES: A lot of them are mellow, yeah. The whole record is mellower.
S: For a while it seemed like your stuff and Heatmiser's were miles apart.
ES: Yeah, now it's not so different now.
S: You think you might incorporate some of your stuff?.....for a while there I thought, "He's gonna bail."
ES: Um, well, um, it's unclear what's going to happen. But, yeah, stylistically they're more similar now than they used to be. I got my own 8-track to do my solo stuff on, and I also got a drumset, and I borrowed a bass, so now some songs have drums and bass.
S: Tell me how you record. Tell me how you recorded Roman Candle.
ES: That was in JJ's basement.
S: Your manager, JJ?
ES: Yeah, I was going out with her at the time, and um, one of her roomates had a 4-track.
Well there was two...a few songs I did on a different 4-track that was nicer, and there was this 4-track that was there that was pretty bottom of the line. And there was a radio-shack mic, and a normal 57.
S: I have a bunch of...for the stuff that we do...I have a couple of PZM's, one for the overhead on the kit and one either side of the kickdrum, then I mic everything with this $40.00 radioshack mic. I shopped around and they have a $40.00 one that's pretty much the equivalent of a 57. I have one 57 I used to use for the snare. But you can get away with stuff pretty cheap.
ES: Yeah.
S: How did you position the mics to record the acoustic? How far away?
ES: As close as possible.
S: Did you EQ them at all?
ES: No, there wasn't any EQ on the 4-track, there was like bass and treble. So I probably turned the treble up.
S: How did you record the drums? On your second album there are drums. How did you position the mics for that? Or did you do that one by yourself?
ES: That one was at another friend's house. She had a 8-track. She had a 58. I don't know, sort of (?) the drums. I think on that song 'Christian Brothers...'
S: I thought it was 'Crispin Glover'
ES: Crispin Glover?
S: I liked it better when I thought it was 'Crispin Glover!'
ES: On that song the mic was close to the snare, there was another one on the cymbal I think .... (?)
S: I have this theory about how you ended up with Sebadoh (on tour). Tony had worked with Eric Matthews, Eric Matthews had worked with Lou...Is that the connection?
ES: No. No...I played in Boston while ago. Lou came out, wanted to see the show I guess. It was his birthday and I ended up drinking champagne...talked a little bit....before that they called me up and wanted to see if I wanted to go on tour with them. But I hadn't really met them yet, so...I don't know why. I guess they just like my stuff.
S: When I first moved to Portland my roomate told me that Heatmiser was a total homo-core band. So for a long time when we listened to your record we always started tellin' the stories, you know?
ES: Why? Did you think me and Neil were boyfriends or something?
S: No. But I had seen Neil with his boyfriend at some show and he was funny. He was grabbin' the guy giving him a kiss and it was like...."yummy!" We were just laughing. In this town you don't see people that comfortable with things & in Portland it's just a great town, everybody's just comfortable. Other people around them are not.
ES: Yeah, well, not everywhere, but...
S: I was still living there....because I used to run into you every now and then at the Luna and I thought you were seeing the tall, short-black haired bass-player.
ES: Yeah, I am.
S: Yeah...she's hilarious. She intimidated the fuck out of me.
ES: Really?
S: She's just a cool tough chick.
ES: I was kinda intimidated by her at first too. She's kind of quiet.
S: My friend in Portland told me about Cold and Delicious....who is doing that?
ES: Pete Krebs from Hazel. He just recorded a new solo record at my house. I'm like the producer.
S: What's Hazel up to? I heard they were finally done.
ES: No, they're still playing.
S: But Teen Dress stopped.
ES: Did they?
S: All those bands seemed like loose projects. What about Junior High?
ES: That's um...my girlfriend's in that band. Joanna, the one you were talking about.
S: What's that other?....
ES: Sean Croghan, from Crackerbash. He's my roomate. He's the singer.
S: Do they have anything out?
ES: No, but they will soon.
S: What about Cold and Delicious?
SS: Pete's in Cold in Delicious? That's Countryish, hillbilly stuff?
ES: Yeah, very much so.
S: Do they have something out?
ES: I don't know....but there could be something that I don't know about.
S: Did you go to Europe with these guys?
ES: No. I've just been on the tour since New York, or Philadelphia...or something...the last couple of weeks.
S: You told me you were from Texas originally. Tell me about what prompted you to move and...did you play in Texas?
ES: No, I moved out of there when I was fourteen because of family problems. I don't know. I don't really want to get into it.
S: Are a lot of those things reflected in the songs on Roman Candle?
ES: Some of them, yeah.
S: Are those situations fairly true stories adapted into song form here and there? c
ES: <hesitates>
S: Condor Avenue?
ES: Condor Avenue I made up when I was, like, 17 or so. So by the time I recorded it for that record I'd already recorded it, like 2 or 3 times before, and it was on like its 4th or 5th lyric. Which still had pieces of all the versions before it, so it didn't make much sense ....
S: It was that time about where....because we thought Heatmiser was a homo-core band....you would sing and we thought, "Ah, he's a gay junkie!." And we thought, "man he's got good reason to have dark songs."
ES: <laughs>
S: We thought, "he was an abused child, and a gay junkie," so that's why we figured you were so good.
ES: Well, I'm not gay...and I'm not a junkie. <chuckles>
S: Well, last time I saw you you looked sick so I thought, woah....cold turkey.
ES: A lot of those songs have to do with a while ago and I'm not really writing songs that....cause a lot of people seem to say...or....some people in their review would say, 'oh these songs are all about dope' which I though totally missed the point.
S: I thought they were about human misery. I thought the other issues were really just kind of the medium....
ES: Right right, yeah, that happened to be the vehicle then. And um, that's where I was at then. They could have just as easily been about love or something and still be about the same thing, which was, in my mind more like dependancy and stuff like that.
S: The songs on the second album were they around at the same time? Because they both have....there's some same modes...what's that opener, Needle?
ES: Needle in the Hay?
S: Yeah...that was on the 7" before it. In fact the record store here told me 'oh, that Needle in the Hay 7" came in'....they thought it came out after the album.

<Debbie Pastor enters room>

S: The second album seems more the 'folk storytelling' thing whereas the first one seems more autobiographical.
ES: Huh. Well that's good. I though it was the other way around.
S: <unintellible> ...and you became more the observer at the end of the bar.
ES: The first one I didn't have any idea it was going to ever come out. I was just doing it. I've been doing stuff like that since I was 14 or 15.
S: Hasn't that ended up being the biggest seller on Cavity Search?
ES: Maybe. They actually gave me a check the other day. I think it was the first time they've gotten to pay a band for records sales. They were really excited.. It was weird that they were happy to be paying somebody, but, they're really nice guys. The first one I didn't know it was going to come out. The second one I knew it was and like...I thought it sounded more like I was presenting something, moreso than the first one.
S: The first one....it's just one of those records you hear and you go, 'this will be one of my favorite records till the day I day.
ES: That's really nice, that's cool.
S: That records on my list, the Cardinal record, the Eric Matthews record, the Richard Davies record, some old Sebadoh, old Fleetwood Mac....generally anytime I've played that for people the jaw drops. In fact, the last time I saw you at the Congo my friend Jay just thought, 'he's a great guitar player'. After that show my friend Jay said, 'I'm going to sell my guitar and I'm never playing music again.' He couldn't believe that combination of chords and picking was just one guy. He thought you were a really skilled guitar player. I'm a drummer, I just like nice songs and melody beautifully executed....I never realized that you're a great guitar player.
ES: There are a lot better guitar players than me, that's for sure.
S: Yeah, I hear Satriani's gonna be here next week.
ES: <chuckles>
S: I have this theory that one day Paul Simon's gonna hear one of your records and he's gonna be calling you up.
ES: No I don't think he'd call me up after what I said about him.
S: Did you rip on him?
ES: Well after that first record came out, one person said that it sounded like Paul Simon. So everybody else that reviewed it had to bring up Paul Simon's name in order to say that it didn't sound like Paul Simon. Paul Simon's name just kept appearing in the few reviews I got. And it was just ridiculous, like, 'Isn't this supposed to be my review not Paul Simon's review?'
S: It reminded me of The Boxer...the mood that those songs set with the subtle vocals and the way those guys sang together. That kind of comes off in the way that you do your overdubs.
ES: Well, I can't really stand most of what Paul Simon did.
S: Solo stuff or what?
ES: Just in general. There's some songs that I like but...um...there's stuff like "Fool said I you do not know, silence like a cancer grows'....I don't know, it was a different time, you know? Anyway, someone was interviewing me and I ended up saying Paul Simon was a pompous ass. And so that kept getting reprinted, which was cruel and unusual....and not probably true.
S: Was there a time a couple of years ago that you thought the whole indie rock scene was going to die? For me I thought it was.
ES: The Indie rock scene? uh....no.
S: I mean with certain bands getting on MTV did you ever feel that might be a threat to the scene?
ES: No, I mean...I don't know....there's always a lot of crap on the radio, that' s just the way the radio is.
S: I think it started encompassing more acoustic stuff....I got a lot of stuff from trooper that I....10% is phenomonal....
ES: Well, I liked it better....well, at one time SST was kinda the big label and they were putting out all of this stuff that was supposed to be post-punk. And it seemed like Punk was growing. The only thing that got on my nerves....was when the whole Punk revival happened except this time without the meaningful part. It was just the look, the sound, and the style. That's what got on my nerves. I didn't feel like the Indie scene was dying out I just felt like Punk was getting narrower instead of bigger.
S: The stuff I like today is stuff like Eric Matthews, Elliott Smith, mellow. I don't feel Punk rock anymore. I'm not angry anymore, just bummed out and cynical.
ES: Well, things get pushed out in different ways. I didn't feel like Rancid was pushing anything out. It's sentimental I suppose. I'm not necessarily pushing anything out either. It seemed like at one point it was being called post-punk and it seemed like this positive growth or movement of punk expanding itself. But now it's just like it's back to old school.
S: Right now it seems like crap is gonna come in....Dave Matthews Band, Ezra...
ES: Yeah, but there's always some good stuff on the radio. Sebadoh has that song on the radio now. And uh, Bush is a bummer.
<Sebadoah member enters room>
S: What other stuff are you listening too right now? Any stuff in Portland?
ES: Well, I like that band, Junior High. Then again my girlfriend is in it and so is my roomate.
Sebadoah member: Junior High? That's a good band name.
S: What's Pete Kreb's band's name Cold and Delicious? That's a pretty class act. Isn't there a Portland band called Rollerball?
ES: Yeah. There's a lot of bands there.
S: Didn't you do something on a Sone E.P. with Aaron?
ES: Yeah I played drums on a Sone song.
S: What song was that?
ES: I think it was called "Diner's Club." It was kind of one of those 7"s with 4 bands and they have one song.
S: It seems like they had a lot of remixes on that last album. And it seems like I saw your name as being the remix engineer. I pictured you doing turntables.
ES: Aaron was recording a songs one time and we started helping each other out. So on occasion we help each other do stuff.
S: Do you like Doug Martsch's stuff?
ES: Yeah! Actually yeah....I totally forgot when you asked me what I was listening to. I got a copy of the new Built to Spill record.
S: Is it out yet?
ES: No. It's great. Really good.
S: What's the personnel?
ES: Scott Plouf who used to be in the Spinanes.
S: Probably Brent from Caustic
ES: Yeah, I think. It sounds like Album of the Year to me.
S: Is Up putting that out?
ES: No, it's their major label debut. I think Warner is putting it out. And it's a great day for rock and roll because usually like the first record on a major is sort of insecure sounding. And this is totally confident sounding. So it's really good.
S: Did you hear that Built to Spill - Caustic Resin thing?
ES: Part of it.
S: The first song is epic and when he sings he sounds like you best friend.
ES: This record has some of the saddest songs I've heard in a long time on it. They're really good.
S: Were you always known in Portland as 'the wraps guy.'? When I first saw you the drummer was always saying he was gonna 'put the wraps' on you. Was that an in joke?
ES: Oh, there was this friend of mine, Erik, who said that one time. Not about my songs. He just walked into the bar and gave me a hug or something. Then we'd just say that to each other.
S: That's become the saying between my friends....I've taped 2 shows now & everyone has the tapes. I work at Old Navy & I make tapes for people there. And I mean....nice cleancut girls that drive Jeep Cherokees really like Elliott Smith and Built to Spill. So if it was on the radio it probably would reach more people and sell more records.
ES: Oh, I don't think it will ever be on the radio.
S: I could see it though. If you did an album with drums and more uptempo....or even with Heatmiser. Right when you're determined 'I'm just not wanting it to.' Boom. Plus this will be a lot of exposure to a group of people that will probably like it. Most people that were at that Congo show you did with Mary Lou Lord went to see Elliott Smith that night.
ES: Well, I don't know. I'm happiest when I don't think about those things. You know I should probably to a soundcheck now.
<Interview ends>

esmith1996-09-16d1t1.flac:a5c80cef739817d0643eb56cc8b6a359